Making the best of MiG-21

During MiG-21F-13 testing in US, they find 21F could not fly faster than 0.98 M below 4.5 km altitude. I wonder how that could be possible? Can transonic buffeting be as such in 57deg swept wing ?

"One of the most significant findings was the discovery that below 15,000 feet, the aircraft could not go supersonic. At low altitude, the severe buffeting simply prevented it from exceeding airspeeds of 685 mph or .98 Mach. This airspeed limitation was a major exploitable design flaw."
John Lowery is a veteran Air Force fighter pilot and freelance writer. He is author of five books on aircraft performance and aviation safety."
 
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michael82, спасибо за график, но машины с движком Р-11 почили в бозе 30 лет назад

Thanks for the graphs but F-13 modification is one of the very first Mig-21 versions (1959 as far as I remember). What’s the use of this info if all such planes were scrapped 30 years ago?
 
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That aircraft had significant moments in aviation history, newer models are somewhere still in service, why shouldn't it get right place..
 
michael82, sure, just keep in mind that over its almost 40-year development history, the MiG-21 airframe has been fitted with a variety of engines, avionics and weapons. Some important airframe modifications have also been made (e.g. boundary layer blow-off system). So, the MiG-21-93 and the Israeli-modified MiG-21 LANCER, both from mid-1990s, are completely different animals from the 1958 MiG-21F.
 
why shouldn't it get right place..
Exactly, and that’s the main point.
What is the right place? What war are we talking about?

Third worlds guerillas conflict?- you don’t need supersonic to bomb the jungles, and Mig-21 payload is too small for that, weak visibility from the cockpit, too primitive sight for ground targets work. Previous generation like Mig 17, -19 would be much better for ground assault or searching&shooting down helicopters, contrabandists’ DC-3 and similar freighters.
Big war against 4th generation? That’s a suicide even for latest top-upgraded planes like Mig-21-93. Mig-21 cant make any serious fight by itself, it requires constant support and coordination from a system of ground control stations which 3rd world countries simply doesn’t have in place
 
Ми-24? потому что сейчас ни ТВ2-117, ни ТВ3 днем с огнем не найти

а на новые вертолеты что за двигатели идут разве не ТВ3-117? или это все из старых запасов, или серия другая невзаимозаменяемая или все таки же цена вопроса заоблачная?
 
There is one aphorism: It does not matter how big dog is in the fight, but how big 'fight' is in the dog. Remember Vietnam, now Afghanistan.. No hi-tech weapon is good against decisive defender.
21 is still in service in about twenty countries. It could still be useful. In spite of Stealth, AMRAAM...dogfight has not gone yet as US officials said (see attachment).
It is not about F-13, I just put official US 21-F-13 evaluation excerpt.

We could also talk (graphically) about newer planes, but I doubt you will put Su-27 turn rate diagrams ?? Any 'empty' talk about them pointless. Pity there are no Su-9/11/15/17, Jak-28, Tu-28..graphs, just photos.
 
There is one aphorism: It does not matter how big dog is in the fight, but how big 'fight' is in the dog. Remember Vietnam, now Afghanistan..
I was in Afghanistan as a pilot. If you want to fight on Mig 21 against F-15 - welcome doing it, but dont waste other's lives. Bad pilots dont have a chance to return, good pilots cost more than the planes, so even if you dont care about your soldiers or the battle results - count the money first.
 
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It is very difficult being at war in another country. I was in similar situation, I happened to be in another country, but I wasn't moving !
You are right, F-15 is far better than MiG-21 in any aspect except at slow speeds (lift and pitch pointing), things that were never exploited. But if we were in our land defending our relatives (as in GPW) we wouldn't mind if opponent is F-22/T-50...
21 turned out to be lateraly-directionaly stable at hi-alpha without all that numeric fluid mechanic computation using supercomputers. Also, any aircraft armed with head cued IC AAMs has great tactical advantage no matter what is the foe.
As I remember, in US close combat simulations F-15 with AIM-9E vs MiG-21 with generation older AAMs kill ratio was ~ 20:1. When F-15 was armed with hypothetical head cued large off-boresight angle IC AAMs (like R-73 Shlem) kill ratio went to almost 1000:1.
 
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